Ugly

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by otterhound, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    It was posted earlier that my design was ugly .
    I doubt that this party had seen this headstock shape , so please discount that .
    What say you ? Is this ugly ?
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  2. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Looks like an extra friction point per string, extra break angles on the string, extra contortion of the string before it gets to the tuner, and overly complicated. Not really my thing looks-wise, but I do like the headstock shape.
     
  3. B. Howard

    B. Howard New Member

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    I don't think it looks ugly at all, just untraditional.

    I am curious as to the thoughts behind the little saddles at each tuner though.......
     
  4. Knarbens

    Knarbens Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Adam and Brian. It's not ugly, but the small saddles seem unnecessary and a traditional classic guitar headstock works and looks smoother.

    Off topic question: Is that a spruce body?
     
  5. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    Bookmatched 1/4 sawn Norway spruce body .
    I have a few more of these billets.
    Brian , the saddles raise the string and prevent it from digging into the headstock itself .
    Individual saddles allow for unlimited possibilities of the tuning machines .
    Because they are the traditional Martin thickness and are fitted into their slots , maintenance and material availability are virtually unlimited .
    An Afghanistan goat farmer can work with this design in his field .
    The saddles permit tuner placement that differs from the standard , traditional design .
    The headstock shape that I have chosen is not possible with the traditional slot used with these tuners which is a large part of why this shape was chosen . I happen to like the shape as well .
    Yes , it is not traditional . So what .
    I am going to play with various shapes of the part of the saddle that extends from the headstock purely for esthetics . What you are looking at is prototype #1 and it will be a test mule as well as a player .
    By shaping a rounded top surface to the saddles , work hardening of strings has been eliminated .
    I tried it first with a square edge just to prove that the rounding was needed .
    It worked , but with repeated tuning adjustments there was some high E string failures when tuning .
    I was intentionally tuning up and down in order to induce failure . Although it did happen , it was not as soon as I had anticipated .
    Another factor is that this design should marry well to CNC production . Drill 2 holes and cut 1 slot .
    Break angle is good , particularly on single plane neck designs .
    Friction is not an issue that I have encountered . Of course , I am using a stainless steel zero fret at this point , but a standard type nut only will be done as my testing moves forward .
    Nothing new is traditional .
     
  6. Purelojik

    Purelojik New Member

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    im not wowed by the design but i think what im still scratching my head over is the entire concept. perhaps i just dont understand the fundamental reason for the design. Can you take another stab at explaining it?
     
  7. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    It eliminates the need for a slot .
    It adds break angle compared to vertical posts which is very important in single plane necks .
    Allows for headstock shapes that were previously not possible with side mounted tuning machines .
    Ease of manufacturing .
    Some might say that it adds a measure of resonance to the headstock .
    Look at my headstock shape . Because of the angle of the sides , the slot necessary would have removed the wood that is used for the inner part of a side mounted tuning machine post . They do not have bushings .
    Of course , if you are comfortable with the string riding on the headstock itself and cutting a groove in it , that is your business .
    I will not have that .
     
  8. Purelojik

    Purelojik New Member

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    in that case i guess i just dont see the point, why not just use electric tuning machine heads? they do this exact same thing, unless someone for whatever reason has to use the side tuning machines. most tuning machine companies even have staggered posts to compensate for the dropoff on fender style one piece/non scarfed pegheads.
     
  9. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    They do not do the same thing and some of us prefer not to compromise . Staggered posts do not increase break angle .
    Besides , when have you seen staggered post left handed 6 in line tuning machines ?
    I understand that you do not see the point .
     
  10. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Sperzel will make any staggered configuration you need without charging extra.

    That's another reason I don't see the point. You've increased the break angle where it doesn't really matter. You have about the same if not less break angle at the nut as you would with standard tuners, and you have far less break angle than you'd have with a traditional slothead. The break angle by the tuners doesn't mean anything, that's not where the string is needing to press down the most, the nut is. I appreciate that you've tried to do something new, but I struggle to grasp what issue you fix with it.
     
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  11. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    With all due respect , I disagree with your claims about break angle .
    I will suggest that you do some research about break angle and what it is .
     
  12. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    On the other note , I will make a suggestion .
    Build a headstock with a traditional slot and tuning machines using my basic headstock shape .
    I am using Grover Sta-Tite 18:1 tuners .
     
  13. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    I know exactly what break angle is, and you've got two of them per string with this headstock layout (3+ if you count the bridge). The important one, at the nut, has less angle on it now because you have saddles before the tuner that stick up a 3/16" or so. What exactly do you think I missed?
     
  14. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    I'm not that interested in slotheads, they aren't regularly used on electrics, and I've not tooled up to build acoustics yet. I've done plenty of finishes on slotheads though, working for the two acoustic builders I've worked for, and really don't see the point in changing such a classic design that works as well as it does, especially with something that introduces complexity, friction, extra unnecessary break angles, and weird looking saddles to the headstock. If the only benefit to your design is being able to use a different shape, good luck.
     
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  15. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    You sir , are wrong .
    Ponder this if you will .
    How many break angles are present at the bridge end of a string through body design ?
     
  16. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Instead of trying to make me ponder, how about you point out how I'm wrong?

    Here, let me guess. You think there can only be two break angles per string, that bending the string after those points doesn't matter? Those bends are break angles, they create friction because you're changing the direction of the string over a surface. Your main break angle at the nut is still much lower than if you didn't have those saddles, so where exactly am I wrong? Point it out please.
     
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  17. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    I have tried .
    I have failed .
    Peace .
     
  18. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    When did you try?
     
  19. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a picture will help. Which gives more pressure where you need it (@ the nut)? Which also provides less friction?

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    Left or right? There's only one right answer.
     
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  20. poro78

    poro78 Well-Known Member

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    Well, he presented his invention as the best ever. You started questioning it. There. :D
     

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