The Slant

Discussion in 'Plans, Designs & Software' started by LC100, May 20, 2013.

  1. BWGuitars

    BWGuitars New Member

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    I guess from my point of view its one of those trade-off type situations. If you want 24 frets (or more), you have to deal with the neck pickup positioning that entails. Especially considering that I can't stand middle pickups, it pretty much is what it is.

    And given the choice between a potential gain in tonal quality or a clearly defined gain in playability, I'll take playability every time without hesitation. Playability and functionality are HEEPs more important to me than miniscule/perceptual tonal gains (that often, if not always, cannot be measured in any quantifiable way).

    I suppose if one were suitably convinced on the nodal positioning concept could get tricky and build a pickup with specially designed coils to be mounted beneath the fingerboard, but that seems excessive given the perceived benefits ;)
     
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  2. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    interesting.. I've always felt that "Playability" was more about the physical specifications and the general ergonomics of a given design, and less about any pickup placement. and tonally speaking.. there is a couple of details that require clarification.. the over all Tone of the electronics.. or the tone of the materials and construction style. these two "tones" can be very independent OR interdependent of each other based on the variables.

    I believe its perfectly possible to separate a basic tonal quality, playability, and functionality, from each other and yet maintain a good working balance between the three. but its all based on the planning.. the overall design and then the execution of that design.

    as far as pickup placment goes, I build a devise which i eluded to earlier that has answered all questions about pickups placments and Sweet spots for me.. the "fret scale" theory I posted above fits within the frame work of my "Devise" and its results will get you within the best educated guess..

    try it I think you might be pretty amazed at how well it works.
    and after all doesn't better sound equate to better Playability and Functionality anyway?
     
  3. BWGuitars

    BWGuitars New Member

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    The playability and functionality I was referring to was in reference to setups with more than 22 frets (specifically the more modern standard of 24). According to the harmonic node concept, you're pretty much boned on your neck pickup. Comparing the 22 and 24 fret guitars that I've built, I'm still not buying the theory that there's an inherent flaw with pickup placement on a 24 fret neck.

    But I agree with everything else you've stated above. Good tone comes from a lot more than pickup placement alone, without a doubt!

    One of these days I'll have to whip up some sort of jig to test the concept out just to see if I'm looking at it wrong. I've been wrong before... many times lol :)
     
  4. emoney

    emoney New Member

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    Just to weigh in so I sound smarter than I actually am; nodes definitely "move" based on the frequency response of the string. Lower tones have a "wider" response, so the nodes on the low E string will be different that those on the high E.

    However, what neither of you are considering is that hearing is a human perception thing too. In other words, you may be spending all this time factoring in your Nodes, when the next guy comes along and doesn't hear the same thing you do. Everything would be based on generality in this realm, and mainly due to the rampant amount of hearing loss that exists, especially among musicians.

    Just another plug for hearing protection from your local hearing guy.
     
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  5. LC100

    LC100 New Member

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    Interesting points brought up here about the nodes, guys. Here's something I've been casually following for a while and found a neat layout for this type of pickup about half-way down the page. Check out the Neo modules and the 'Crazy' layout.
     
  6. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    thats very cool. wish this had been around when I was trying to figure out how to get a pickup on our JBD-100 with that wild slant.

    also his idea is pretty close to Scott Lawing's Zexcoil pickup idea.
    I've been playing around with the Zexcoils for the last 2 years and they sound excellent.
     
  7. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Bingo.
     
  8. LC100

    LC100 New Member

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    Remember reading about that in the other place and instantly thought about you when I glanced at those tiny singles there. :D
     
  9. Metal Snake

    Metal Snake New Member

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    ^This is absolutely true, take it from a metal guy. What you need is output. Most guitars that are considered to have 'good tone' I would have no use for (too weak). 24 frets and a Floyd are good to have too:dude:

    Also, I'm totally gonna make myself some of those little Neo pickups. That's an awesome idea. I think there was a guitar made in the sixties or so that used a similar concept, with individual coils for each string, but I forget who made it. Gretsch perhaps?
     
  10. Metal Snake

    Metal Snake New Member

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    [​IMG]

    This isn't the one I was thinking of, but similar. How's that for a slant?

    Edit: By the way, if you have some time to kill, do a Google image search for "unusual guitar". Educational, to say the least.
     
  11. Leo

    Leo Member

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    ^ That's a great slant if you want to really exaggerate the difference between each string and make the bass as muddy as possible and the treble as shrill and twangy as possible.

    Personally I go for the exact opposite kind of pickup slant.
     
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  12. Axeman270

    Axeman270 Member

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  13. poro78

    poro78 Well-Known Member

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  14. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    :rofl: good one..


    as for the rest of the discussion..

    to each his own. this is the stuff that makes people want to try out different luthiers products.
     
  15. Axeman270

    Axeman270 Member

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    I'm new to building, is his site one I should ignore? seems he has a lot of experience, granted part of every article is hyping his guitars
     
  16. Heretic

    Heretic Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Ed Roman is/was....not a good source for information.
     
  17. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Ed Roman was a slimy piece of shit while he was alive.
     
  18. Ronsonic

    Ronsonic New Member

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    I don't know Ed Roman beyond his rants - let me say this about those and start with a quote from this article "Still the fact remains they (Strats) are improperly designed. The laws of physics are absolute."

    The laws of physics are indeed absolute. Other things are just as unavoidably true:
    Our understanding of the laws of physics is incomplete.
    Especially as they relate to guitars.
    The subject is, as a whole, greater than the perceptions and experience of any one of us.

    Which leads me to this link: John Godfrey Saxe: The Blind Men and the Elephant

    When we communicate our understanding of a thing and learn from others we can comprehend things greater than our own experience and learning. When you just declare others to be wrong, simply because they see and hear something you don't, you doom yourself to ignorance. Ed knew a lot but not nearly as much as he might or as much as he thought he did.
     

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