The debate over tone wood will soon be over.

Discussion in 'Guitar Building' started by TKOjams, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. TKOjams

    TKOjams Well-Known Member

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    nope, try again...
     
  2. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    They do have you in them .
    I know that your ego is trying to get me to say that I am in them , which is also correct .
    The real question is , where is the anger coming from ?
    You appear to have a real issue with anyone daring to question anything connected to you .
    Instead of defending a position , you resort to personal attacks and insults .
    These are the refuge of lost arguments . Instead of going there , you may want to courteously voice your opinion and be heard . There is no wrong in that .
    I have real issues with authoritarians and will stand my ground every time . I am also prepared to defend my ideas respectfully , which I have done .
    I can also agree to disagree without attempting to attack the other on a personal level .
    Since I will be traveling to Somerville , Mass this weekend to attend a meeting of the New England Luthiers , I will offer to stop by and buy you a beer along the way and I don't even drink . All you need do is provide me with a phone number and I will make it happen .
     
  3. TKOjams

    TKOjams Well-Known Member

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  4. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    You are welcome here any time . :wave:
    As a side note , I will have some tonewoods with me as well as my prototype .
    This would give you a chance to actually see and touch a working example from which to base and freely express your opinion on . It will add certain legitimacy to your derision of my design .
    I would like to see some of your work sometime . After all , it does appear that you build fine guitars .
    Let me know if you ever change your mind .
    If you ever do build that guitar using the recommendations that you stated , I am very interested in seeing the result .
    I love learning .
     
  5. Dave Locher

    Dave Locher Member

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    Mom! Dad! Stop fighting!! Can't you see you're tearing me apart?!
     
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  6. VictOr358

    VictOr358 Member

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    Scientifically speaking...
    I salute your creativity, but this construction violates both, a KISS principle and the Occam Razor. Engineering and philosophy here. :shrug:

    Really, you base your statement on your personal (subjective) observation? From a pair of videos?
    Not scientific at all. Statistics here :hmm:

    My take on this subject is:
    1. We're dealing with a heterogeneous construct, as a guitar is assembled from several elements.
    2. We're dealing with a heterogeneous material, as wood IS a heterogeneous substance.
    3. There's not a pair of calibrated human ears.

    Ergo, I'm fine with TKOJam's approach and I find his demonstration valid and valuable. Not to mention his efforts. :metal:

    However, to be unbiased I must propose the following. What if I design a simple mechanized pick strocking device, you make it, then we kindly ask TKOJam to make another blind test with it attached?
    In this case everyone should be happy, I hope :wave:

    Cheers,
    Victor
     
  7. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    This design is very simple . It is just different . Just because it solves a problem that most have never asked . Of course , that list is very long . Someone has to be the first . Our lives are full of things like that .
    Occam's Razor was used in creating and executing the design .
    I know human nature .
    Once you connect the visual with the audible , objectivity is out the window . Look at how my opinion was treated .
    Had this evidence been presented differently , as I suggested , and blind , I have no doubt that the results would have varied . Of course , we will never know that will we .
    Another suggestion .
    Post that thread as titled here on other sites using a blind , audio only , results clip as A and B with both A and B using both instruments and no knowledge this and let's see what the results are .
    In the end , the debate over tone wood will likely continue . Let's give it a try .
    Yes , I did offer my opinion based on my observations of 2 videos . Show me an opinion of this based on anything else . It is all we have to go on , you included .
     
  8. Michael_P

    Michael_P Member

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    you're kidding, right?

    he registered before you and has 2.518 posts to your one...

    are you blind??? post #86 in this thread...BLIND...Jesus weeps...and notice post #87

    of course I understand how you write that one off...you have 15.405 times the posts he has...

    and hey, post #88

    you care to insult Adam???

    3 videos...

    let's not...it's been proven...you've obviously never seen sonic graphs of guitars with different woods with the same pickups...why don't you stop attacking people and disprove what has already been proven yourself...and good luck at that...surely you will have all the haters (read: motards) on your side :rofl:

    yeah, I know, I've broken a cardinal rule of forums...I fed a troll
     
  9. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    I stand by my opinion .
    All of your rage can't take that from me .
    " I used to live in a room full of mirrors
    All I could see was me
    Then I take my spirit and I smash my mirrors
    Now the whole world is here for me to see "
    Jimi wrote those words quite a while back .
    Please try taking them to heart .
    I am tired of your poison .
     
  10. Knarbens

    Knarbens Well-Known Member

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    Boys ... eat a snickers!
     
  11. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    Yeah , I know .
    I just saw something very cool over at TDPRI .
    It is a cardboard Strat .
    My lack of computer skills prevents me from linking to the YouTube video , but you all can find it if you care to look .
    As I used to say in my motorcycle road racing days " Take it to the Limit " and I will add Dare to Challenge the World .
    Hope you all enjoy this really cool bit of creativity because I love it .
     
  12. aeleus

    aeleus Active Member

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    More fuel for the fire:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oo2H-W7d6A

    Especially at around 2:48: "Sounds like a Strat"
     
  13. otterhound

    otterhound New Member

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    Thanks for the link aeleus .
     
  14. TKOjams

    TKOjams Well-Known Member

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    built like a Strat = sounds like a Strat :)
     
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  15. jayjackson

    jayjackson New Member

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    i am new to this forum but my concern about tone wood is real,thier are many that believe the wood has very little effect on a solid body electric guitar, I think there is but I would think that if you put any type of finish on the wood to test it. would change the effect of tone in the wood,and here is something I also believe if you play a guitar long enough the wood will resonpd better to tone you play the most on the guitar,If you played with drop tuneing for 10 years.it will not sound as good if you changed the tuneing to normal C.The wood over the years develops resonance to the sounds it plays over the years.
     
  16. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand New Member

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    That's an interesting theory, but exactly what physical/acoustical properties are you basing it on?
     
  17. Michael_P

    Michael_P Member

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    :rolleyes:

    you're a real tool buddy...

    keep on spreading your fake news about woods making no difference...and keep on meeting resistance from those of us who realize you're a tonewood baiting troll...

    though, I'm going to have to agree that the concept of exact tuning frequency is a bit out there, though the rest of the concept of aged woods in pretty much a proven fact since woods do change as they age and are subjected to various environmental factors...

    even the tuning concept does make some sense considering it appears to be widely accepted that an acoustic guitar does in some ways go "dead" after a long period of not being played and needs to be played a bit to "awaken"

    whoops, I broke the rule about not feeding the trolls...oh well...:cheers:
     
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  18. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand New Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Asking for clarification makes me "a real tool"? Yes, your behavior clearly doesn't out you as the troll here. Learn to deal with other opinions without throwing a hissy fit.

    As soon as you stoop to yelling "fake news!", you know you have lost the argument...

    Yes, woods change (subtlely) as they age, but that doesn't matter if they don't affect tone to begin with, does it? Or does the aging process alter the very laws of physics?

    We are not talking about acoustic guitars, but I'm not surprised you don't understand the difference between transverse waves and longitudinal waves...

    Whoops, you responded because my cold, hard logic is getting under your veneer-thin skin. Take a deep breath, control your emotions and come back when you can converse like an adult. :cheers:
     
  19. GuitarBuilder

    GuitarBuilder Member

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  20. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand New Member

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