Looking for a fix for truss rod buzz

Discussion in 'Restoration & Repair' started by aeleus, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. aeleus

    aeleus Active Member

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    I have a guitar with some sympathetic vibration coming from the truss rod. This guitar has the LMII double action truss rod which is wrapped with heat-shrink tubing, but nothing else was put in the channel to prevent buzzing (oops - forgot that step).

    My thought is to pour something into the slot through the headstock opening. Something that flows easily but will eventually harden just a bit or turn tacky - enough to stop the buzz.

    I'm just not sure what that would be. Any thoughts? Any better ideas on how to deal with this issue?
     
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  2. emoney

    emoney New Member

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    No help here, but I thought I'd mention a note of caution. If you use something that does "expand" in order to harden, be very stingy as you don't want it lifting your fretboard.
     
  3. TKOjams

    TKOjams Well-Known Member

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  4. jcsimons

    jcsimons New Member

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    couldn't you just put a little tension on it?
     
  5. emoney

    emoney New Member

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    My 1st thought was to tell it to stop being so sympathetic, but then again, maybe that's too obvious.
     
  6. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    I don't recommend this with a dual action rod as silicon adhesive can stop the rod from being able to turn..

    Believe it or not.. I've done the same thing with Great Stuff foam.. and once dry. it won't stop the rod from being able to turn.

    and one quick little shot will expand all the way down the rod channel.
     
  7. TKOjams

    TKOjams Well-Known Member

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    :wave: With all due respect, I must tell you that I don't have a clue what you're talking about. The two way TR's I use (and all of them that I've ever seen) have plastic sleeves over both rods, or at least the portiion of the rod that does turn. The silicon never touches the metal therefore it can't hamper the rod's movement at all.
    What two way TR's are you using?

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    As usual, I've said my thoughts too quickly and wrong..

    the rods I use are like the last two photos...

    I'm not saying your method won't work.

    I was thinking more about the silicon adhesive itself..
    the silicon stuff I've used here dries very hard and holds tight as any CA glue. and its very dense and rubbery.. so Sleeve or no.
    I would think it would keep the rod from being able to expand or at least hamper it from expanding smoothly.

    the Expanding foam is mostly aerated material and it dries stiff, but it's still crush-able. so if the rod tries to expand. it should be able to.
    I've used it in the past with decent results.
    but then we are talking about a down and dirty fix here, so almost any method is better than the alternative of yanking the board off right?

    honestly, I think its just cheap insurance to use a filler strip with just about any truss rod style and avoid the hassles.
     
  9. TKOjams

    TKOjams Well-Known Member

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    I've been using a dab of silicon in my TRC's for years, and haven't had any trouble with it limiting the ability of the TR to work correctly. There is so little very room in the channel that it doesn't need to move all that much to transfer it's energy to the neck. Of course when I say years, I mean only six builds.:p
     
  10. aeleus

    aeleus Active Member

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    I think this would work with a different kind of rod. The LMI rod has a flat top that's essentially the same width as the channel it sits in. While I'd be closer to where I want it, I'd have to somehow force the silicone in under pressure to spread it out.

    I already have access to the channel from the headstock opening. My thought is to pour something in that's thin as water to get past the tight spaces but coats the rod and then gels up or gets tacky - but does not harden (to Bruce's point).

    Chair-Loc was mentioned on the Seymour Duncan forum as a solution. I'm nervous that it works by "swelling the wood" though.
     
  11. Blue Belly Guitars

    Blue Belly Guitars New Member

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    No one has asked the obvious question..." Are you sure it's the truss rod?
    I have use both style double action rods & have never had one rattle. Plenty of things can create a buzz. A slight adjustment should also make a truss rod stop buzzing, if it is in fact the truss rod.
     
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  12. aeleus

    aeleus Active Member

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    I agree. It's often difficult to pinpoint a buzz. After trying all the tricks to isolate the problem, I'm about 98% certain it's the rod. That 2% doubt is the reason I want to try a simple fix rather than doing something that requires any drilling of holes or dismantling of joints. I figure there's no harm in it if I find the right substance to pour into the truss rod channel.
     
  13. TKOjams

    TKOjams Well-Known Member

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    Is that TR known as the Martin style? I've never used that one before.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. aeleus

    aeleus Active Member

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    This guitar has the LMI truss rod found here. Like the Martin, it is flat on top.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    to be absolutely sure. you'll want to eliminate the tuning keys and anything else that is attached to the neck by mechanical means.

    but, if its the truss rod.. you can usually knock on the back of the neck and reproduce the rattle..



    I've tried using silicone adhesive in my TR slots prior to fingerboard glue-up..

    I now have 3 necks that I can't turn the rods on.. perhaps I used the wrong silicon.. but its what made me start using filler strips in all my necks 2 years ago.

    the increase in resonance and the complete stoppage of any TR rattle convinced me this was the way to go.
     
  16. jcsimons

    jcsimons New Member

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    Aeleus - unless I'm missing something, it seems like you should be able to determine for sure whether its the TR or not by tightening the thing. If its pushing wood, its not going to be able to rattle.

    Bruce - how deep is the filler strip that you use?
     
  17. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    mine end up being between 1/8" to 5/32 in thickness.
    its just enough to hold the rod still and take up any "rattle room"

    I've notice that my Truss rods work better too as they are sort of "pre-loaded" by the filler strip.
     
  18. jcsimons

    jcsimons New Member

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    ok, thanks for that - I'm on the verge of having to do this. I've been using the old style single action (LP) rods, but I'm kinda tired of not being able to dial in a little relief
     
  19. aeleus

    aeleus Active Member

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    The thing with this dual-action rod is that there are actually two rods. While one is in tension, the other is under compression - and vice versa depending on which way you turn it. It's possible for one of the rods to not be pushing against the wood - but only held by the ends of the truss rod mechanism.

    In this case, I can get the rod to rattle by bumping the base of the neck - even with the rod tightened.
     
  20. aeleus

    aeleus Active Member

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    Aside from Great Stuff foam and silicone, what do others like to use as extra insurance against truss rod rattle?

    To my mind, the ideal substance would only prevent the buzz and not add to the mass of the neck or impair the neck's ability to resonate - and certainly not prevent the rod from working as it should.
     

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