Dual truss rods

Discussion in 'Guitar Building' started by Jenious, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Jenious

    Jenious Member

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    Is there any real benefit to this? I've seen a few places do this, esoterik guitars being one of them. They say it gives you more control over the neck. I can see a need for two truss rods for an 8 string guitar like agile does, but is it overkill on six strings?
     
  2. Heretic

    Heretic Well-Known Member

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    On a 6-string guitar or 4 string bass, it's not necessary, and may introduce more problems than it is meant to solve, due to the wood removed to accommodate the truss rods.

    On very wide necks like 8-string guitars and 6-string basses, it allows you to adjust the two sides of the neck differently, because you often have different amounts of tension on each side of the neck. If you've seen a wide-neck guitar/bass with more relief on the treble side than the bass side (resulting in a sort-of twisted look), two truss rods can help that problem.
     
  3. SimonB15

    SimonB15 Active Member

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    Is different relief on treble and bass sides of wide neck instruments desirable for some players? I haven't seen dual truss rods, so if I was winging it on a wide neck instrument (my usual methodology) I'd probably go with a couple of carbon fibre rods. Which isn't necessarily correct, just where my brain jumps to! 2 truss rods wouldn't even occur to me :lol:
     
  4. Heretic

    Heretic Well-Known Member

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    I suppose. But with truss rods, you could adjust the relief to how you want it, not just to however the neck settles on its own.
     
  5. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    having worked for (Tobias basses) and created a company (Warrior instruments) that both uses Dual truss rods..

    I can say that they CAN be very useful, especially for 5 string and more basses.

    At Warrior I think I help take that idea in a better direction with our patented "Splayed truss rods". which simply means that the rods followed the taper of the neck. So they were not parallel to each other, and they were spaced toward the outer edges more.
    this really did help with the whole bass/treble differing neck bow issue.

    its not a must do thing.. but it can give you a competitive edge.
     
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  6. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    One problem with dual rods on a 6 string guitar is the added weight. It can really change the balance of the guitar. You can get away with not using dual rods on an 8 string guitar neck if you do a laminate neck, but any more than 8 strings and you definitely want 2 rods. Even with 8 strings, 2 rods is probably still worthwhile.
     
  7. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    unless you use Titanium rods. :naughty:
     
  8. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    That sounds expensive :rofl:
     
  9. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    what, so guitar building is only supposed to be "cheap" or something?

    the pursuit of tone is often expensive..

    but just think about how much you could charge for your custom necks with Dual Titanium truss rods. :naughty:
     
  10. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Most guitarists are really cheap :lol: Bassists would probably pay for that though :D
     
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  11. Heretic

    Heretic Well-Known Member

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    There is a serious misconception about truss rods that I think is worth clarifying.

    Truss rods are not about strength. They don't make the neck harder, stronger, or stiffer. In fact, one could argue that they make the neck weaker, since you necessarily have to remove wood (which is the primary structural material in a neck) from the neck beam to install the rod. Most truss rods are not glued in, so they are not integral to the neck, and they do not provide strength. Even with truss rods that are glued in, the primary purpose is not to add strength.

    Truss rods are about adjustability. Without a truss rod, the neck changes shape due to tension from strings, climatic changes, etc., and you can't easily put it back into the correct shape. Sometimes it doesn't present a problem, and sometimes it does. But regardless of the practical effect on the instrument's playability, without a truss rod, you can't do very much about it. With a truss rod, you can fix it quickly and easily.

    For making a neck stronger...laminating it, and/or adding reinforcement rods of some kind (steel, graphite, etc.) will get you there.

    Truss rods are not about strength. They are about adjustability.

    I like to configure my truss rods so that they are removable. They get wedged in there pretty tight, and it's not easy to get them out, but they do come out. That way, if the nut gets stripped, or something else happens to the rod, it can be fixed quickly and easily.
     
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  12. Clsatt

    Clsatt New Member

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    Mark, any chance you have pictures of how you do your truss rods? I've only seen removable rods in rickenbacker before and I'm not a huge fan of their particular system-- I like the idea but haven't personally played with it to figure out a way to do it with a better rod type. I'm sure yours is more refined than theirs and I would love to see how you worked it out.

    Chris
     
  13. Heretic

    Heretic Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any photos of it, but I'll take some the next time I make a neck.
     
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  14. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    I re-read the thread and I can't find anywhere that someone eluded to the need for more strength..

    and I'm hoping you understood that my comment about Titanium was about weight, not strength.
     
  15. Heretic

    Heretic Well-Known Member

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    I suppose my perception is different than yours, then.

    Yeah, I got that.
     
  16. Jenious

    Jenious Member

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    thanks, this answered my question! so pretty much dual truss rods aren't needed until you get into extended range guitars and basses. But even then, for an 8 string guitar they're more of a luxury than a necessity?
     
  17. Heretic

    Heretic Well-Known Member

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    I would call dual truss rods a necessity on 8 or more string guitars and 6 or more string basses.
     
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  18. Duplex Dave

    Duplex Dave Active Member

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    Yep, X2.
    Even dual rods in acoustic 12 string guitars are overkill. Usually one rod is doing the lion's share of the work, the other one just takes up space, removes more wood than neccesary at the vulnerable headstock area, and adds an uncomfortable amount of dead weight.
     
  19. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Active Member

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    this is greatly dependent on the design and implementation of the given rod.

    its very possible to have a rod system that removes zero material from the headstock area. and a rod system that actually does work and is not just dead weight.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
  20. Novatone

    Novatone New Member

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    I'm a big fan of laminating my guitar necks. In my experience it makes a neck really stiff. :yesway: (and it looks great!)

    But I think I have to disagree somewhat with your view on the strength a rod contributes to the stiffness of the neck. Correct me if I'm wrong, but was adding strength not the main reason for mister McHugh to add a truss rod to the neck, so he could make thinner necks?
    A truss rod excerts a force great enough to change the shape of the neck and keeping it in that shape while the strings are on. I like to think that it does add strength to a neck:hmm:
    Ah well, whatever works for us aye?:cool: As long as it doesn't like this we're all cool:

    [​IMG]
     

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